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Friends And Family
Conversations from the studios of God's Way Radio in Miami, FL.
WAYG-LP | 104.7FM
Friends And Family
Embracing Grace: Matt's Journey from Resistance to Redemption and Ministry
We're so thankful to have Matt in the studio today, as he shares his transformative spiritual journey with us. From a youth filled with resistance and turmoil to a profound epiphany at a youth lodge, Matt's testimony is a beacon of hope, illustrating the relentless pursuit of grace and the strength found in genuine confession. His turning point at 15, a stark moment of resistance turned embrace of Christianity, serves as a cornerstone of our heartfelt discussion.
As we navigate the complexities of faith and conviction, Matt alongside Jerry, unfolds tales of overcoming personal demons, sibling rivalry, and the poignant redemption found in Peter's biblical restoration by Jesus. Parents tuning in will find solace and guidance in our conversations about leading children through spiritually challenging times, emphasizing the critical role of tough love and prioritizing the soul's well-being. Our dialogue reveals the transformative impact of returning to the Lord without concealment and the power of fellowship in healing and growth.
Concluding with an exploration of Matt's unexpected journey from aspiring electrician to ordained minister, we illuminate the realities of full-time ministry and the humility of being a vessel for God's message. This episode isn't just about sharing Matt's path; it's about inspiring each of us to consider how we can be used by God, regardless of our titles or roles. Join us in this episode for a profound insight into the highs and lows of a life committed to faith—a narrative that may just reshape your own.
You're tuned in to Friends and Family, a God's Way radio exclusive where we introduce you to some amazing people. In John 15, verse 15, jesus says I have called you friends for all things that I heard from my Father I have made known to you. That's our aim that God would be made known to you. Stay with us until the end of our conversation for more information on this program and other unique offerings from God's Way radio.
Joey:To my left I have Jerry and to my right I have Matt. Good for us evening, gentlemen.
Matt:Good evening. Good evening.
Jerry:Good to have you both. I love you. Glad to have you here.
Joey:Family and friends. Hey, good to have you both here, Not to put you on the spot, but putting you on the spot, Matt. You're really kind of the guest of honor here in the sense. Jerry, we can invite him anytime he lives here, but this is your first time in Miami.
Matt:It is yep, Never been here before. Super excited.
Joey:How do you like?
Matt:it, I love it, I love it. I love the family here. We've got an amazing church family. I've known many of the youth from Calvary Chapel Miami. Many of them aren't youth anymore and so there's a long history with me here with Calvary Chapel Miami, but this is the first time I've ever actually been able to come down.
Joey:It's really cool for me personally because, as you were mentioning earlier, at church, tiffany was your youth leader or counselor or something.
Matt:Yeah, when I was a camper at Headwaters Lodge, she was working up there on staff and she was my summer camp counselor.
Joey:So that's really cool. Again, talking about the history and how God brings things around, you're here right now. This whole circle, right? So you talked about a youth lodge and somebody was your youth counselor and now you're here to minister to our youth group. Yep, that's right. So we'll get into that. But, matt, as I mentioned to you before before we started recording, I love asking people how they met Jesus. Their testimony Share with us how Jesus got a hold of your life.
Matt:Yeah, so I grew up in a Christian home and some amazing parents I mean my parents did everything they could to point me to Jesus and, like many young people, I was a believer when I was young and went to church, attended Sunday school and then eventually youth group.
Matt:And around sixth, seventh grade, I really started questioning my faith, really started having some doubts, was looking at some of my friends I went to public school some of my friends and was thinking, these guys, they don't know the Lord, but, man, I like hanging out with these guys, and so there's just so many things out there, so many things people call truth, and so I was really just searching and trying to figure out what is true, what's not. And so in that season, from sixth grade all the way up until I was a senior, we were going to Headwaters Lodge where Tiffany worked as a camp counselor, and every time I'd go up there, man, the Lord would meet with me and I would have this amazing spiritual experience. It would be like whoa, I love Jesus, this is awesome. And come back home and a week or two later just fall away. We just go back to what I was doing before. Whatever my friends were doing, that's what I was doing and we'd go up every year. So the next year I'd go up and whoa.
Jerry:Jesus is awesome.
Matt:This is great, come back home week or two later doing the same old thing. And so this whole time I'm just wrestling with my own faith and just having these spiritual ups and spiritual downs and finally, at 15 years old, I was just done. I was done with Christianity. I was a super angry kid, really angry at my mom and fighting against her a lot, and really bitter towards my brother. I had a lot of, truthfully, hatred in my heart towards him and a big reason for that was he was actually a strong believer and anytime I'd point out some fault or some sin in his life, he just went through a lot and just be like man, praise the Lord for his grace, and it was just like I don't have anything against him, wow. And so I was just angry and a lot of it was centered in my own insecurities and fighting with my mom a lot, and she was like you need to go up to camp and I didn't want to at all.
Matt:15 years old, I'm like I don't want to go back up there. I know what's going to happen. I want to get on the spiritual high again and I want to fall away. What's the point? And so my mom said the point is, you're going, and so I went. But yeah, going up to camp that year I was just, I was hard. I just basically purposed in my heart that I wasn't going to let God speak to me. I didn't want to get on this spiritual high again because it doesn't work and in my mind at that point Christianity didn't work because it never worked for me. And so just really, really hard hearted.
Matt:Yet what's amazing is that's the year the Lord got me, even though I was just so against him and not wanting to hear from him at all. That's the year he reached out for me and it's something I love that, even though you know we might stop pursuing the Lord, he never stops pursuing us. And he came after me and I don't remember who taught, I don't remember the session, I just remember man. It convicted me and I really, really saw my, my sin. I saw my hatred, the hatred I had for my brother, the disrespect I was showing my mom, and I was really convicted.
Matt:And I went down to the laundry room they had there and got my notebook out, just started writing out my prayer to God. It finally came to this point of asking, or really confessing, lord. You know I've I've rededicated my life to you. Time and time and time again, I said I'm going to follow you, and yet I don't. And I came to this point of asking God how can you still love me, how can you still love me when I failed you so many times?
Matt:And it was just in that moment the Lord showed me the cross and I was just like oh yeah, that's like I've heard this all my life, but in that moment it became real, because I saw my sin and I saw the reason Jesus died was for me, and that's why he was able to keep loving me, even though I'd failed so many times. He died. He died for me and so because of that, I can have life. And that's when my life completely turned around and home, first thing I did was apologize to my mom, apologize to my brother for the way I'd been treating them and, yeah, then walk with the Lord ever since.
Joey:Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story with us. You probably see me here writing things down so many points in that story. The last word I'm writing down here is humility. You know, one of the first things I want to point out to anyone listening. You know you talk about this deep spiritual wrestling, and that was from 1213 to 15.
Joey:I mean, you were a kid and you know, as I look over at Jerry, you know I think he knows from experience. Sometimes we can diminish the experience of a child or a young teenager, but they're going through serious things and God wants to get ahold of them.
Jerry:Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And that's one of the reasons why I am enjoying the privilege of serving with youth is that they are in the middle of a struggle, and it's real, it's. Not only is it a spiritual struggle, but even their entire bodies, their minds, their friends. You know, they're just learning to be adults and just one bad decision really can lead you astray, and that's what happened with my life, and I lost many, many, many years because of bad decisions. And if I can just reach one, one youth, that that that is going the wrong way and turn them around to Jesus, then then it's worth it. You know, this is this. That's what it's all about.
Joey:Amen. Um, you know a couple of the things that stuck out there from that story. You talk about your hatred for your brother and I'm thinking you know One of the criticisms. Maybe somebody skeptical listening, maybe their heart is not sensitive to the things of the Lord, they might say, oh, that's just siblings, you know.
Matt:Right.
Joey:Everybody goes through that. Yeah, what would you?
Matt:say to them, you know I would say don't minimize it. You know it's easy to rationalize or justify or minimize sin, you know, but that's what it was. It was sin. You know, I should have been loving my brother, especially since my brother was showing me so much love, and that's unfortunately just what was turning me away, you know, was the fact that he was so confident in the Lord and he was so quick to forgive me, and I didn't know what he had. I wanted to be able to do that and I couldn't, and so it just made, you know, darkness hates the light and unfortunately I was in darkness and my brother was being a light and so, yeah, don't minimize it, don't rationalize it or justify it. I mean, it was sin, it was just a little sinful teenager's heart, yeah.
Joey:Yeah, amen. You know I think of parents that are listening. You know I'm a young parent with young kids and what a word to us to not minimize sin in our children. You know, if they're being hateful, if they're being rebellious, we gotta deal with that.
Tiffany:You know we gotta recognize that.
Joey:So maybe we'll come back to parenting later. How many kids do you have now? Four, four kids. We'll come back to parenting, we'll see. But I'm just looking at your testimony and some of the things that God had you share with us. You mentioned something else and this kind of another, kind of a big, deep one in a sense. You know, you use the words I fell away, I fell away, and you know, I think some people struggle with this, whether it's theologically, intellectually or experientially, where, oh, you know, I fell away, I can't come back. Or to fall away means you know this thing theologically or whatever. But that wasn't your experience. You would, you know, fall away as you described it, fall off the wagon or walk away from the Lord and come back, and walk away and come back. And I'm thinking that you didn't only have that experience personally, but you've probably seen that in a lot of youth as well, absolutely.
Joey:Talk to us about that. You know what? About that person that you know I've fallen away too many times, or? But the Bible says this, or how can that be possible? I mean, you already shared your experience with the cross, the revelation of the cross, but is there anything else you can share with anyone listening?
Matt:Yeah, well, I think you know the fear for a lot of people is you know, if I've fallen away, you know, you know it's the verse in Hebrews I think it's Hebrews six you know that you can't, once you've tasted the spirit right, you can't come back, you can't crucify Christ a second time. I think is the way it says it, and I think that's the fear. You know is okay, I've walked away and so I can't come back. You know, and I don't think that's the Lord's heart at all, we look at Peter, who spent three years with Jesus and ultimately denied Jesus three times. And then what does the Lord do?
Matt:He reinstates him, he restores him you know, and he's actually in the exact same spot where Jesus found him. He's in a boat, you know, and the Lord does the exact same miracle for him. And so you know, if there's someone listening, that you know maybe you had that moment with the Lord at one point and you're right back where you started. You know what? You might just be having a Peter moment, and the Lord he's on the shore and he's got breakfast ready for you and he just says hey, come and dine with me, I want a fellowship with you.
Joey:I love that a Peter moment.
Matt:Yeah.
Joey:That's amazing. Anything you wanted to say on that, Jerry.
Jerry:No, just, I've been reading Hebrews in my devotional time and I was reading Hebrews 10, 38, where it says but my righteous one will live by faith, but if he draws back, I have no pleasure in him, and just that concept of drawing back and it's kind of like I envisioned somebody who was hiding, you know, like hiding and you know, and it's just that we can do that and the very opposite of what we need is to come to the Lord, you know, and to not hide, you know, and that is what frees us from that. Amen.
Joey:It's almost like if I'm connecting the dots here. It's almost like to say I can't come back is like hiding Just come to the Lord.
Tiffany:Stop hiding right.
Joey:Yeah absolutely. Yep, awesome, you know I love there you were 15. You know this kind of a silly question Anybody that was paying attention to your story. But are you glad your mom made you go to camp? I am so glad. Yes, absolutely Talk to us.
Matt:Parents talk to us man. You know what, in hindsight, you know I'm so glad because I went. I went know the Lord right, or maybe I would through another way. But what it really showed me was my mom was willing to love me enough that she was willing to make me uncomfortable.
Matt:Well she was willing to put me in uncomfortable situations and to make me do things that I didn't want to do, but it was for my own good. You know, she cared more about my spirit and my soul than she cared about my feelings. Wow, and so?
Joey:you know that she didn't. You know this is 2021. It is.
Matt:I understand, you know, but she cared about my feelings, but she cared about my spirit and soul.
Joey:No, I'm joking, that was good, because we need to hear that in 2021. Oh, absolutely.
Matt:I mean because you know feelings will pass away, but you know your soul is eternal and my mom loved me enough to again make me uncomfortable and to make me do things I didn't want to do and it was again for my own good, you know. And so I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that she made me go, even though I went kicking and screaming, because I want to be here today, absolutely.
Joey:We're jumping around a little bit, but you ended up working at that lodge. I did yeah, and I want to kind of jump in the middle here to ask you another question. Then maybe we'll hear a little bit more of the story element of it. Go back and hear how that happened, but you've worked with youth for a long time.
Matt:Yeah.
Joey:And just elaborate a little bit more what you just said. With your mom and your personal experience, I must believe that you've seen that in other youth's lives and not to brag or anything, the credit goes to Jesus. But has it been hundreds, thousands, 500? I mean, how many youth have you seen that parents make the hard decision and it benefits their son or daughter?
Matt:Oh man, yeah, I mean thousands. For sure. The lodge we would have, you know, close to probably 2,500 kids come every year. Now we were open year round, so you know we had close to, I think, 1500 kids in the summer and then probably about the same amount coming fall to spring, and so I mean every group.
Matt:It seemed like there was 10, 12 plus kids rededicating their life to the Lord or maybe giving their life to the Lord. I mean a lot of kids giving their life to the Lord for the first time and I know for many of them they were forced to be, there or they were highly encouraged without giving another option to be there.
Matt:Yeah, so I would say, you know, for camp specifically, I mean, thousands of kids for sure get saved. I mean there's probably people listening to this who got saved at camp. I mean it's a very common place for people to meet the Lord, because you're just separated from distractions and you're in a place where you are specifically there to hear from the Lord.
Jerry:Amen Amen.
Joey:Any thought on?
Jerry:that Jerry? Yeah, along the lines of you know what he, what Matt, explained about his, his mom, you know pretty much forcing him to go. I think of Psalm 119, verse 67,. Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep your word. And then the Psalmist goes on to say you are good and do good, teach me your statues. And you know, as parents, we don't want to do anything that would make our kids, you know, uncomfortable or get mad at us or but, but that is what we're called to do, that is discipleship, that's how we train our children and, and it may be rough for a season, they may resent you because you know, just like in Matt's testimony, they'll resent you, but but then there will come a time where you know, as we're faithful to the Lord, they're going to turn and that's how they learn. And then, like you know, song, like verse 68, after being afflicted, the Psalmist goes on you are good and do good, teach me. You know our children will grow when they grow in the Lord to appreciate that.
Joey:That's awesome. Amen. Awesome scripture, psalm 119, verses 67 and 68. If you just tuned in, you're listening to God's Way Radio, where 16, 17, 18 minutes here into a conversation with Matt Basinger and Jerry Angelo. Jerry, he'll be back, he's, we got him around. But Matt's here visiting. He's going to be the pastor at the youth camp, the guest pastor, and and we're really excited for that If you missed the beginning of this conversation or this interview, you got to go back and listen to it.
Joey:There's gold here for parents, for youth, theologically I mean. I mean, god is so blessing our time together. So let us know you can call our studio 786-313-3115. Let us know how we can help you get this information. Maybe you want to connect with some of the people you hear on the radio. Maybe you want to hear more from Matt or connect with something that he mentioned, or maybe, jerry, please give us a call at the studio 786-313-3115. Matt, going back to kind of a bit more of a chronological order here, so you guys save your 15. You can skip right to the lodge if you want, or maybe there's something that happened before that, but you ended up working at a place called Headwaters Lodge.
Matt:Yeah, so, like you said, it's a place I got saved Awesome camp out in Highland County, virginia, middle of nowhere, you know. Everything was like an hour, 15 minutes away. And so, yeah, actually, right before I went up there, I kind of had my whole life planned out. I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to be an electrician. I was going to trade school for that.
Matt:And yet every time I got in the Word I had a pretty steady, quiet time with the Lord. And every time I was getting in the Word I just felt the Lord kind of just whispering to me you know, this isn't what you're supposed to be doing right now. You're not supposed to go be an electrician. And it wasn't like I was reading James, chapter 3, and right there, matt, don't be an electrician. It was that still small voice. It was the Lord leading me and guiding me, and so I was like, well, I don't know what to do. If I'm not supposed to do this this summer, what am I supposed to do?
Matt:And so at the time we were going to Horizon Christian Fellowship, which is in Harrisonburg, virginia, and the pastor of that church, ronnie Breen, was also directing Headwater's Lodge, and so talked to Ronnie and said hey would like to serve up at the lodge this summer. And so he was like yeah, we would. We would love to have you up there. So went up. You know, I was actually 17 when I went up, turned 18 that summer and had never led anything in my life, you know. Just never, never. You know, I was just that, that kid in school, I just coasted by you know, could mingle with any group, but it wasn't.
Matt:I was not a leader to yeah at all and went up there and basically they were like hey, the guy that's supposed to be running our do loads program, he, he bailed, he went on a cruise and so we need you to, we need you to step in and run this. It was terrible for that dude because he missed out on some awesome stuff, you know. And I got there and man, the Lord, just I mean, it was just incredible what God did. And I was blown away and by the end of the summer I was like, okay, okay, this is, this is where the Lord has me, this is where I need to be.
Matt:And my dad actually was really struggling with that. You know, he's kind of like you need a good job, you need to, you know, be doing this or that. And you know my dad loves the Lord and he loves me and he was wanting me to, you know, live a successful, normal life and that's not what the Lord had for me, I guess. So you know, but that that October I decided to stay past the summer. So it's now October. I'm up there and I'm just regretting all my life decisions. I'm like what have I done? You know, I'm you know only 18 years old.
Matt:I'm like I've thrown my life away, you know, and and I'm serving the Lord up here, I've got nothing, you know I'm not making, they're not paying me, I'm volunteer. And so I'm driving up to the lodge and again it's an hour 15 drive and just crying out to God and basically just whining. I'm being just a whiner and the Lord just totally just stopped me in my tracks and was like Matt, I have you where I want you. You know, it wasn't this audible voice, but I knew it was the Lord speaking to me and he just said Matt, I have you where I want you. And it was basically from that moment on.
Matt:I decided okay, wherever the Lord wants me, that's where I'm going to be. I'm just going to, I'm just going to follow him because that's the best place to be, and so was up there for another three, four years. Actually met my wife Carmen up there. We got married in 2012. And we ended up coming back to Hairsenberg in 2013. Was the youth pastor at Horizon Christian Fellowship and then in 2016, the Lord called my wife and I to go back up there and ended up directing it from 2017 up until it closed in 2019.
Joey:And directing it. And again, not for any accolades or anything, but I think it's such an amazing part of the story that's. That's the boss of the lodge, I mean that's other than Jesus.
Matt:I know what you mean. I mean.
Joey:The reason I asked is because what a testimony. I mean, what an awesome story. You know you get saved there as a teenager. You, you, you, you, you. How'd you say? You regret all your life decisions there?
Tiffany:And then you end up running the place.
Joey:And again, besides Jesus, and you know, I just, I pray that people are listening. You know, even as I slow down and process what I just heard, if you're just submitted to the Lord, if you're, if you just say, Lord, I'm yours, I'm willing to obey you, how he can do beautiful things. And, and obviously your story is not over, You're a young guy, you have young kids, you're growing, you're serving, you know, but but to have that chapter in your life, what an amazing thing. And it seems to me and maybe I'll ask you this, jerry, so so Matt could plead the fifth here it seems to me that Matt became a leader. He went from some kid that's skated by to to a leader. I mean, I don't, I don't know if you've got to seen that. That much of Matt, jerry, I think you have.
Jerry:Oh, absolutely Definitely. The Lord has gifted him with leadership and I see it with the youth and how they respond, and that's why we're super excited about camp and listening to Matt. I just it's just an amazing story when you think about it, because we First of all our measure of success, you know, in life and as parents too, we tend to Want our children to, you know, make as much money as possible, have this awesome house, and, but then you listen to the Lord and you are obedient to it, and this other guy went on a cruise and and, and he got to enjoy for that momentary Commentary, whatever it was, let's say it was a week of the pleasures of this life. You were obedient to the Lord and you were blessed with a lifetime of blessings because so much came out of that one Decision. And it's just amazing to hear and you know those on the radio that don't know Matt, you can't see this. I wish they can see it. But he has a beautiful family. Oh yeah, I mean beautiful kids.
Jerry:I mean they're just like, like, like. It's just like from a magazine. It's not even real.
Tiffany:And so how do you get the perfect? Yeah, you're the perfect wife.
Jerry:I just think of that song, I think a song 37. I think it is. You know, once is young and now I'm old and I've never seen the righteous forsaken Bread. And every single person that I have seen that has listened to the call of the Lord and has given up Whatever it is that they need to give up for the Lord, every single person I have seen the Lord has blessed abundantly. More than that, what this world can, can offer.
Joey:Amen. Thank you so much for Jerry for for chiming in there. Um, yeah, yeah, man, to see the Lord Take care of of his servants, it's, it's a special thing, matt, you mentioned until it's closing in 2019. We mentioned this before we started recording that this is kind of still an in-progress chapter, I think yeah. Why'd you close the lodge? Man Be lighthearted, but. But what happened? Obviously you don't have to give every detail, but but just tell us about this chapter, what's going on in your life?
Matt:Yeah, so you know, for for multiple reasons, in very different, differing reasons. You know, the, the board of directors that oversaw headwater sludge, and specifically YDI as an organization, decided to close the, the ministry of headwater sludge, and you know the blessing in in that is is that it didn't close Some dying, fruitless ministry. The reality is, I mean that the last couple years we just saw such an outpouring of just God's faithfulness and his grace. I mean we had more do los kids, which do los was a discipleship program we had out there. I mean it was overflowing. We had, you know, a hundred plus kids coming to do a Discipleship program in the summer where they're mowing grass and wheat, eating and cooking the meals, and you know it was just insane, you know. And and overflowing with camps, and so you know I'm grateful for the way it ended, because it ended while it was still fruitful like on a high note, on a high note.
Matt:Yeah, it wasn't this yeah, withering place. The facilities were definitely going downhill. You know you have enough kids come through every day or every year. Yeah, that happens. But yeah, so they end up closing it in in 2019 and and, yeah, you know, since then it's been, it's been a wild journey for for Carmen, I, carmen's, my wife for those listening and you know we, we Basically it closed.
Matt:We're like, okay, god, you've got something awesome in store for us. I'm excited. You know, God, what's, what do you have? And it was just crickets. It was Really one of the first times that I've ever experienced. Just, you know that, that wilderness wandering that you know so many people in the Bible talk about in you know Moses wandering in the wilderness and you know Even Paul had to go to the wilderness for a season, and what's funny is I lived in the wilderness and yet it was a fruitful place and soon as that, that place closed. It was like going and stepping into the wilderness. We had a couple ministry opportunities come our way and and Just felt the Lord, either he closed those doors or the Lord just told me no, that's, that's not the direction I have for you, and so was like, okay, all right. God like that's great, gonna, follow you again goes back to the word I heard from from him back when I was 18, you know, matt, this is where I have you.
Matt:I'm like I want to be where the Lord wants me and so Right now, he wants me in the wilderness, or he wanted me in the wilderness, and so I Ended up having to live up there at the camp until January 29 or 2020, and so camp closed August 2019, ended up having to live up there until January 2020, just praying about where we're supposed to go. And we had an opportunity from Cowry Chapel, fluvanna and they said you know can't offer you a position or anything, but we'd love for you to come out here, you know, and serve at the church and be a part of the. The community here in Cowry Chapel Fluvanna had been going to the lodge They've been bringing their camps up every year and so Wasn't really like. The Lord said yes, this is it go, but it was the only place we felt like the Lord hadn't closed the door and hadn't said no.
Matt:And so we said, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna take this step of faith and we stepped there and in COVID hit.
Joey:That's what I was thinking. I'm like January 2020.
Matt:Yeah, it was just like so we step out or finally, you know, found a, found a place to live, and all that, and it was just like everything shut down and, in hindsight, man so grateful to look back and see the Lord's faithfulness Because he provided me with a wonderful job.
Matt:I got to work for an elder at the church doing HVAC and in my electrical trade Skills have played a big part in me being able to do that, you know, and I was able to serve at the church once they reopened, leading the young adult study there now, and and so the Lord has been faithful, he gave us a place to stay and to blossom In that season and really for Carmoni, it's been a good season too for us as a family, you know to to recenter. You know we're not Surrounded by full-time ministry. We're able to just, you know, sit in and really draw close to our kids and pour into them and, like you guys have already said, I've got four amazing kids.
Matt:I mean who? Yeah, it's just bring me so much joy, you know. And so this has definitely been a trying to do. My heart is still what I want to. I want to be out there pouring into To people's lives. I want to make disciples. I know that's what the Lord's called me to, but he's also called me to go through this wilderness.
Matt:Yeah and am I gonna be faithful here? You know, I don't want to just be faithful when it's fruitful. I want to be faithful when I don't understand what's going on in in the trials, you know, because that's really where you build endurance and that's where you grow the most. And so that's where I'm at. I want to, I want to grow, I want to continue to, to know the Lord better and better and wait for him, because I Know whatever he's got is better than what I can make up.
Jerry:Amen.
Joey:Amen, amen. Thank you so much for even sharing that. I mean, hmm, you know, I think 2020 was a trying year for everyone in different ways. That if I got who first said it, jerry, I don't know if you remember, I don't know if it was someone here at the church, or but they said Something to the effect of we're all going through the same storm in different boats, and that was like 2020. It was like we're all in this like hurricane of a storm in our own boats and everybody trying to trying to, you know, keep the water out one way or the other.
Joey:Um, so many things, so many things that we can pick up on and and just, you know, look at again the humility and not to, not to to again give yourself any praise or recognition, but but just as a sharing moment, it sounds like you've had to humble yourself a lot throughout your life and, you know, take a step of faith, not know what you're doing. You know you had a position of director. Uh, you know, eventually ordained as a pastor, I mean, all these titles that you could have held on to, but you didn't. And and how important was that in transitioning different times of your life?
Matt:That's a great question. I mean it's. You know, I think that's the benefit and one of the blessings I think this season has really brought is Realizing I'm not, I'm not necessary. You know that God can do his work without me, but what a joy and a privilege to be used.
Matt:You know, I, as far as being ordained as a pastor, you know I don't think that's gonna change the way I do ministry. Um, you know, I'm still gonna just preach the word pour into people, and I know, ultimately, that only Jesus can cause the change in people's life. You know I can't do anything. I just want to be really a burning bush. You know, that's what. That's what changed Moses's life. Right, was a burning bush, and the Lord spoke to Moses through the bush. And you know, bush is a bush, there's nothing special about it, but that bush was set on fire by the Lord, and that's that's what I want to be. Um, so, as far as titles and stuff, you know, uh, I hope to remain a person that just knows I'm a bush. I'm nothing but a little shrub, you know, and uh, not even a tree, you know, just, uh, just shrubbery.
Jerry:I've never heard it and I love it because I want to be a burning bush. Well, we exactly.
Joey:We talk about being set on fire and the fire of the Lord, and uh, what a picture from scripture right, yeah, that one or or acts right the tongues like fire. Neither of them like a super big, impressive fire. So interesting, interesting, right when we sing this worship song. What was, I wonder what I was thinking before. Now the only image in my head is going to be a burning bush, and that's a good one.
Matt:Um, yeah, yeah.
Joey:Um, you know you mentioned something else and you know we have all kinds of people listening. If, if you just tuned in, we're talking to Matt. He's a brother from Virginia, are you living in Virginia?
Matt:Yeah, savannah, okay, savannah County, virginia.
Joey:Savannah County, virginia, and just tremendous uh story shared with us so far. I came to know the Lord when he was 15 years old and uh been running, walking after the Lord ever since. And you know, if you didn't get to hear the first part of this conversation or interview, uh, please make sure you reach out to us and you get the the interview in its entirety. It's so important to to hear what he has to say, what God is saying through him. We also have Jerry here in the studio with us. Um, he uh serves here at Calvary Chapel, miami, and so so we look forward to having him again and uh, I can't think of a joke there, but but he'll be back.
Matt:Um.
Joey:I just trying to stay out track here. You mentioned something else, uh, matt, and you know we have all kinds of people that are listening, uh, you know, just thinking about our listening family at God's radio we have, you know, I'm thinking of two people right now. We used to have a guy, uh, well, actually, no, we still have a guy. His name is, uh, has he said his name on the radio? I remember South Miami Heights dear brother calls often in the morning to our live call in program and and he's an older guy and and just tremendous, tremendous brother. And then we have, uh, a young man, uh, he might be 15, 16 at this point. His name is Josiah and his, his mom calls pretty often and and kind of like she's such a like great mom brags about her son and everything he's called before. But, man, the guys you know he's doing like Bible studies in school, uh, you know he's, he's running after the Lord and and so we have this range of people listening.
Joey:And why am I saying all that? Because I gotta believe that there's some people listening, that maybe they're thinking about full-time ministry. You know I use air quotes there and you're going to see what I'm getting at. You know, maybe some people want to work at church, or maybe some people see on TV or on the internet these preachers and I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just trying to cover a scope here. You mentioned that you were in full-time ministry or surrounded by full-time ministry, and you know I'll another way I would frame that season of your life is like a missionary. I mean you, you moved out to this mountain and literally you know. You know, you lived up there and everything you know. I guess my question is elaborating on the, on the aspects of full-time ministry, being a missionary, uh, how it compares to what's been going on lately, the good, the bad, Uh, if, if people are listening, thinking about that, what should they know? It's kind of a big range here, but whatever comes to your mind and harm, yeah.
Matt:What I would say, you know, is is it's easy to romanticize, um, you know the the idea of full-time ministry. It's it can be very romantic. I'm, I'm going to go to the missions field and, uh, it has to be a calling, it has to be a calling or it will never work.
Matt:Um, you know, you, you go out to Highland County's middle of no, where you go out there, you know you're going to be living with people all the time, full-time, you know, and you're going to be under spiritual attack, you're going to be, um, putting positions where you're uncomfortable, or or you know you're really going to have to rely on the Lord. Um, and so my, my first statement would be it has to be a calling. Uh. My mind goes to to Psalm one. You know.
Matt:He talks about, uh, blesses the man you know and uh, who meditates on the word day and night, for he should be like a tree planted by still waters and it's so important to be planted. You know the Lord's never going to let you just fall to the wayside. He's going to plant you where he wants you, and so I want to be that man. And, and if you want to be in full-time ministry, you got to, you got to wait for the Lord's planting. Don't try to plant yourself because, uh, you will get uprooted, uh, or you're not going to plant yourself in the correct spot and you're not going to have the nutrients, you're not going to have the strength that you need, uh, because that only comes from the Lord. Um, so, yeah, you know, the romanticizing of it, I think is is always a danger. Um, you know, and and again, the calling is is so vital. Yeah, I don't know really what else to to to add to that. Well, that's foundational.
Joey:Um, you know what comes to my mind? Uh, question, um, how do I phrase this? I think that we can and again, there's there's so many different people that could be listening, but some of us, we can get into a mode where we think, you know, I have to do, I have to do right, I have to, I have to work.
Joey:I have to you know um it's what I do for the Lord, and and, and so you know, I'm thinking of maybe mom, I think of mom, I think of maybe moms that are listening, that that they're, they have so much on their plate and and they want to serve the Lord, they want to do more for the Lord, you know. You know, maybe we'll get to to to a little bit of Jerry's experience as a man with a career. You know more than one thing going on right now as far as career business. Uh, you know it. It. Here's the point. I don't think it is so important what we do for the Lord, um, you know, but somebody can look at you and say, matt, oh, but you got to do so much, and and that's so I mean. But maybe help them understand, help us understand, it isn't about what you do.
Matt:Right, no, absolutely. Yeah. I mean we've added nothing to our salvation. You know, I think I think for the mom out there, for the person that's in the career you know, and they, they want to do more for the Lord. Praise the Lord for that.
Matt:I think that's there is nothing wrong with that at all. I mean, even in Timothy, right, a person that desires to be a deacon or a bishop, like you're desiring a good thing. It says so. Those desires in and of themselves are not bad, but I think it's important to know that you don't find your self worth. You don't find your identity in those things. You know that, and it's something I've had to fight against.
Matt:It's not finding my identity as a pastor or you know someone in full-time ministry. My identity is in a follower of Jesus, and it's not about what I do per se, it's about who I follow and I follow Christ, you know, and wherever that is, whether that's in the secular business world or whether that's in being, you know, I'm not a mom, but I'm a dad, you know, and being a dad and being a husband, you know, all of those things are affected because of who I follow. And so you know, it's that classic cliche. We're all in full-time ministry, and you know it's true. You know I think it's funny we throw it around so quick and so easy and it is true. I don't want to, you know, minimize that statement, but the reality is it's we're not, you know, supposed to focus on. Oh, you're in ministry, who are you following? You're a follower of Jesus and that will impact the people around you. You know, when people see, you know Joey and Jerry, these are men who follow Jesus, then that's the ministry.
Matt:You know, it's not about laying hands on people or pouring out who you follow and God will give you those opportunities if you're faithful to follow him.
Joey:Yeah, you know, I have the privilege of working here at the church. This is my full-time job and, jerry, I'm going to come to you in a second. But some of the not all not right, not, I don't, I don't get in trouble. I love my job. But some of the some of the most amazing moments were not on like work time, like right now, for some reason.
Joey:What comes to my mind is it was towards the end of the like pandemic thing or whatever, when we had lockdowns, I don't remember, and some guy at a gas station wasn't wearing a mask and I wasn't wearing a mask and I'm like what's up? And he's like what's up. And we just started chatting and he said like he I don't know who said it first like, oh, I had COVID. I had COVID, oh, how did you go, how did it go for you? And I was like, oh, this is it, like I have to say something. And and you know he said and said long, so short.
Joey:I said something to the effect of like, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I wasn't that scared because I know what's going to happen to me when I die and I know it's going to happen to my wife and I'm pretty sure I know what's going to happen to my kids and I pray for them every day and and so it's a little bit scary, but but I know we're going to be okay because we're going to be with Jesus, and so I just pray that you would know that, or something like that. And he was like, oh yeah, I didn't like ask for a response or anything, but I was like, oh, I was so fired up, you know, and and I was literally at a gas pump, like at a gas station, so so, yeah, I, I totally hear that. So, jerry, you know, maybe just a couple minutes, I mean with with what God's done in your life, and and just again, that encouragement as someone working and doing different businesses and still serving the Lord.
Jerry:Well, matt said it, it's our identity. Where's your identity? And I think of the end of a first Samuel. I believe it is that David is fighting the Amalekites and six out of 600 soldiers, 200 stayed behind because they couldn't make it and they stayed behind with the supplies. 400 went to battle.
Jerry:They were successful, they come back and they, they, the ones that won the battle, didn't want to give the plunder, any of the plunder, to the ones that stayed behind guarding the supplies, but David, you know, led by the Lord, says no, we give an equal share of supplies to those that are guarding the supply, I mean of the plunder, to those guarding the supplies, as as those that were out in battle and and because they're all the same, they're all soldiers of the living God and that's how we are. You know, no matter where we're at, we're fighting the same battle, we're seeking the same Lord, we're walking by faith, we're children of God and it doesn't make a difference, you know, whether we're working in a company or at church or not, or wherever we're at, you know we're just following the Lord at school, whether at school at home, at school Amen.
Joey:So this is the fun part. So this is going to air after youth camp Okay. I don't know how long after, but what are you praying for, basically, or looking forward to to happen at youth camp and then we're going to see what God does. All right, what are you praying for? What are you hoping for?
Matt:Well, first off I want to say, if you're listening, be praying for it, even though it's going to air afterwards. You know God's outside of time Amen.
Matt:He's going to hear your prayer is going to affect the kids there at camp.
Matt:My prayer is that every single kid that comes there will hear the truth, you know, and that, ultimately, my prayers that every single kid would come to a saving knowledge of the Lord, amen.
Matt:You know I pray that the Lord is preparing their hearts, even right now, that the the seeds that are going to be sown are going to fall on good soil. You know I pray for those who are struggling with their identity, whether it's a sexual identity or just maybe just who they are. You know, their teenagers are going through so many transitions and changes, and so that their identity would be found in Jesus and that from this week on, they would just follow him all the days of their life. You know, I always think of when I was a kid at youth camp, that kid that was going on the highs and lows, and I know that the Lord reached me, and so my prayers that the Lord just reaches them in ways they can't even predict, ways they don't even, you know, they just can't even imagine that he would do a work above and beyond what we could think or imagine.
Joey:That's my prayer, and amen, Lord, I'll do it. Lord.
Joey:I so look forward to, to seeing how God's going to answer that prayer. You've been listening to a conversation recorded in our studio. We've had Jerry here with us, but really our guest, our main guest, has been Matt. He's from out of town. If you didn't know Matt before, you know I'm pretty well now. You know I heard some new things today and that's why I love having people visit us in the studio. You always hear something new, you always get to know them a little bit better, and if you didn't catch a part of this interview, this conversation perhaps the beginning or the middle and just caught the end here, please reach out to us. We want to make sure you hear the whole thing and everything that God shared through Matt and Jerry and through our conversation here in the studio. And the camp that he was referring to is the Calvary Chapel Miami Youth Camp 2021 here at the end of July, and we just do pray for that.
Joey:And so much more we can say, so much more we can go into. We're going to kind of end it here and again. Thank you, matt, for being here. Thank you, jerry.