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Friends And Family
Conversations from the studios of God's Way Radio in Miami, FL.
WAYG-LP | 104.7FM
Friends And Family
Lessons From Life And Minsitry
When the weight of ministry, marriage, and everyday responsibilities converge, it can seem like an insurmountable peak. Yet, Pastor Bobby Hargraves joins us with a map and compass, sharing with us how he has navigated through it all. Our enriching conversation traverses the landscape of maintaining a robust marriage while answering the call of pastoral care – an odyssey through the ebbs and flows of lifelong partnership and service. We unpack the Calvary Chapel's successful model based on scripture and Christ-like leadership, with our guests Bobby Hargraves, Mike Hargraves, Travis Carey, and Zak Vazquez.
Picture a world where vulnerability is strength and mutual support is the cornerstone of marriage, especially within the demanding realm of ministry. We confront the challenges of setting realistic expectations and the misconceptions that often beset pastors' families, unearthing the treasures found in genuine communication and the shared pilgrimage toward spiritual growth. Together, we celebrate the unique contributions of our spouses, encouraging leaders to foster a household where gifts are nurtured and unrealistic pressures are lifted.
Concluding our session, wisdom is shared on mastering the clock and crafting teachings that strike the heart – an art and science vital for those juggling the pulpit, parenthood, and partnership. We reflect on the simplicity yet profundity of scriptural teaching, nodding to the Calvary Chapel's legacy and the promising horizon for future leaders. And as we spotlight the passion and reach of senior pastors through their radio ministries, we affirm our commitment to sharing stories of God's work, hoping to amplify these voices for listeners to find guidance and inspiration in their own spiritual walks.
You're tuned in to Friends and Family, a God's Way radio exclusive where we introduce you to some amazing people. In John 15, verse 15, jesus says I have called you friends for all things that I heard from my Father I have made known to you. That's our aim that God would be made known to you. Stay with us until the end of our conversation for more information on this program and other unique offerings from God's Way radio.
Joey:I have a feeling we are in for an exciting conversation today. We have a packed house We've done this a couple of times before where Pastor Zach kind of leads the interview a little bit and he lets me help out sometimes. But it's a joy because he's a senior pastor at Calvary Chapel, miami and we have other senior pastors and other pastors in the room with us and it's just such an insight. It's such a treat to hear what these guys have to say, the kind of things that come up in their conversations, as they've invested and dedicated their lives to a certain calling and, again, a position which it starts by serving. We know that and that will probably come up. But anyways, pastor Zach, thank you for taking the time to do this and bringing such incredible guys here.
Zak:Thanks so much, joey. We're super blessed today. We have Pastor Bobby Hargraves here from Calvary Chapel of the Hudson Valley, and it's always a joy to be able to interview and just have conversations with pastors that have been pastors for decades and then, also, blessed, have a good friend of mine, travis Carey, in from out of town too. So we figured we'd just get everybody in a room and just see what the Lord has to speak through us. But, bobby, you've been a Christian for 44 years, you've been married for 38 years, you've been a pastor for 30 years. So I love talking to guys like you that I love pastors, that it's not necessarily have a big church, but I love talking to pastors that have a good marriage. Their kids still like them, their church still likes them.
Zak:That's the pastor that I want to be like when I grow up, so just want to hear from you any tips for longevity, especially within family, within marriage and your kids. There's different seasons. I've seen parents really struggle with their kids as they go through different seasons. How do you keep having a good relationship with your wife and with your kids as you're living in the ministry?
Bobby:You know, all glory to the Lord, jesus Christ. You know you're asking me about longevity and I actually used to run marathons and I think that's the key. It's not a dash, it's not something that you have to pace yourself in the ministry and you know, I'm sure in the 30 years of doing it, I made a lot of mistakes. I didn't have like Travis and yourself. You guys were blessed with coming from a Calvary Chapel. You were there in the midst of being part with the pastors and having them over you. You know I had a different background and so when I came to Calvary Chapel which, personally, guys, if you're listening, I think if you're from a Calvary Chapel, you really need to thank God, like you know what I have seen of Calvary Chapel and the pastors. It's just the way to go. It's they emulate Christ, they emulate Acts, chapter two, and the emphasis upon the word of God. I think those are the things. They're so important, you know, and you guys had that.
Bobby:So I kind of, you know, listening to Chuck, over the years you kind of more or less built a model in your head and and then being around, thank God, lloyd Pully, joe Foch, these guys taking you under their wings and stuff, and so it was just watching them and then emulating them and and just it. Really, you know what it is, zach, it really is the grace of God. It's the grace of God, like, when I look at my life, the 30 years now, and I look at our church and you know, from a standpoint of the world, I guess they would say, wow, we've been very successful. But you said it earlier where it says in the Bible, god has chosen the foolish things in the world to confound the wise. And I always I was telling you guys yesterday I feel like for his gump, I feel like I am the person that, if you know, like the person you can point to and say, look, if God can do it to him, he could do it to anyone. And so it really is God like God is good.
Zak:Yeah. And then with marriage and balancing marriage and ministry, how has that gone? Because unfortunately, today is like every month you see a different pastor falling or you see their marriage really isn't something that other people want to emulate. How have you been able, you and Liz, be able to stick it through, be able to love one another and to continue to be an example to other marriages, other couples, other pastors?
Bobby:Well, the Bible gives us all the answers. It teaches us, you know, to. You know where Paul says we're to love our wives like Christ, love the church, but thank God, he said before that to be being filled with the Holy Spirit. So you know, I'm not just filled with the spirit when I go to church, I mean every day of my life. You know, when I worked a secular job for you know a long time, 11 years, before I went full time into the ministry, you know, I always realized, okay, I'm going to this job, but then when I would commute home, I had an hour commute home I was preparing myself. I'm now going to my real job and I'm gonna like I knew I was going to be doing the dishes, I was going to be giving the girls their baths, I was going to help out with the dishes afterwards, and so I recognize, like it was really good for me, for a man, you know, and to just. You know, I want to be like Christ and I fear the Lord. I think that's the other thing. The beginning of wisdom is to fear the Lord and, by God's grace, I always had that proper. I don't know if it was the Catholic background in me or anything. But I did. I had a holy fear, like a fear of God, and I did learn somewhat of a reverence for God, and so it's always carried me like. You know that verse, I was just thinking of it this morning and I was like those whom the Lord loves, he chastens, and he chastens me a lot, you know, and so I never got away with anything. But there's, you know, I was telling your church yesterday. You know I've come to this place where I love it, where, where, where David writes in Psalm 106, where he says you know, the children of Israel saw the works of God, but Moses knew the way of God. And you know it, my faith began with the love of Jesus Christ, like he really did love me, like he came down and he really he loved me. He took me as I was a mess and he forgave me of all my sins. And you know that's something I just it's never gone away, this love of Jesus Christ, and the more I grow.
Bobby:You know you're talking about marriage. I love where Joe Foch talks about you're always a newbie in marriage. You never arrived. Like you know, my first year of marriage was terrible. I mean, I, I, I, you know, it was like dying to myself all over again, like realizing I'm with this other person, I have to put this other person first. And then, after a year, two years, I was like this is great, man, I like marriage, you know two incomes, we're doing good, we're going on, you know different places, and then the babies came, and so then that's it changes all over again. And so and now there's that responsibility you have to take care of these kids and you have to, you know, raise them in the Lord. So you're always new. And then Liz and I went through where the kids got married and they left the home, and so it's just you and her. And so it was starting all over again, like whoa, who is this woman? Who you know? So you're starting all over again.
Bobby:So it's just, you know, stay in, I tell you, stay in love with Jesus. Just love, love. Jesus. You constantly are needy. You need his filling to do anything, to love your wife, to be a good father, to be a pastor. You need that filling of the Spirit.
Bobby:So I just find myself, especially lately, just in such need of him that the moment I wake up now, it's like it's me and him. We're talking. We're communicating with them. I'm listening. I listened to mess. I must listen to about three messages a day because you know, when I get up that's my devotional. I'll listen to a message, then I'll go to work and I'll be in the book for a while, but then I'll listen to other messages on the text. So I'm just constantly in the word of God. In fact, I'm thinking more and more now as I've grown older. The Lord knew what he was doing when he got me into the ministry, because I was. I always think that I'm like like Jesus had those three Peter, james and John. He had to keep them very close and they saw a lot of things and I think he's literally changed me to the word of God where every day I'm just I have to, you know, to prepare, to be ready.
Zak:So you're always in it. Yeah, I joke around with our church. I wasn't the best student, so the teachers would constantly change my desk right next to there. So that's what God has done. Same thing with me. I'm in the remedial class, so that's why he made me a pastor, so I could be right next to him. And I loved what you shared just in marriage being willing and having the mindset as a man to help with the dishes, to do the dishes to change the diapers.
Bobby:That's where you're really living, like Christ, you know.
Zak:Yeah, I was asking Joe Fogey, anything you would do differently, and I was one of the things he said. Take the studying a little bit less serious and take the family time a little bit more serious. When you're downstairs and you hear your wife and the kids bugging out while you're studying, take a break, go downstairs, help them and then get back to the book. But, tras, I know you have been through a lot of seasons. You got married in Maine, then you moved to Hawaii, moved back to Maine, Moved to Hawaii.
Bobby:I didn't know that.
Travis:Yeah.
Zak:So for marriage, do anything that you've seen in your marriage that has helped a marriage grow. I know on staff, different churches, not planning a church four years ago what has helped your marriage stay strong and healthy.
Travis:Well, I'm a blessed man. My wife loves Jesus, I think, more than I do. She's been discipled so well. She went through the discipleship program at Cannon Janett's Church, cavichopal, bangor.
Travis:But I remember it was our first year of marriage, serving as a pastoral intern under Pastor Bud Stonebreaker in Hawaii, just new green, wanting to serve the Lord in ministry, and I was watching Pastor Bud do officiate a wedding and I remember he gave this kind of brief dissertation on Genesis, chapter two, about Adam and Eve being naked and unashamed, and he highlighted something that really it blessed me and it's always stood with me about before sin. There was this vulnerability and transparency and closeness between a husband and wife that the walls weren't up and that really as men we think the naked and unashamed, we think physically naked, but I think there was an emotional, a relational bearness between the two and it's sin that always wants to build those barriers up. So my wife and I, both sitting there hearing that we made a commitment that we would keep short accounts with each other and the same way we always talk about keeping short accounts with the Lord, bobby, as you said about this always needed to be filled with the spirit, always needed to be repenting and repenting and confessing our sins and staying close to the Lord, likewise doing that with each other. My wife knows my insecurities, I know her insecurities. She knows my weaknesses, I know her weaknesses and I think I'm grateful in the sovereign hands of God that I heard such a message early in our marriage.
Travis:And, as Bobby said, the examples I mean. I've seen men in ministry with longevity who have marriages intact and Zach, as you began, and marriages that the husband and wife love each other and their kids love them, their churches love them. So we this far in the relay race, zach, I know I'm so blessed I'm surrounded by men who have intact marriages, healthy homes, successful, healthy churches. So just watching other men, not just in the pulpit, when Paul says to the elders and Ephesus, you saw the manner of my life in which, both publicly and house to house, I demonstrated these things and I know my pastor, ken Graves, a great man behind the pulpit, a better man in my opinion, privately, one-on-one, and I got to see those things Wow.
Zak:Yeah, so often with the marriages you have this pent up frustration the husband with the wife or the wife with the husband, simply because they're not expressing their frustrations or their difficulties or what's going on. Then you ask them hey, have you spoken to your spouse about that?
Travis:No.
Zak:And then they hold onto it until they explode in a fight and then nothing gets solved but how. The God's word tells us that the two shall become one flesh. And the more that we keep things secret and private from our spouse, the more bound for disaster we are in our marriages. So that's so good. And the other danger I've seen with the young adult couple sometimes is they think marriages is all about them and it's just this island. And it's so important to continue to fellowship with other couples, fellowship with older couples. Like both of you, gentlemen, said that we could learn, we could watch, we could learn and we could see. Marriage is not like the movies.
Zak:Sex is definitely not like pornography or anything like that, and the more you see just normal, everyday couples living life, loving Jesus, it helps us to realize okay, this is what marriage and life is supposed to look like. That's so good.
Bobby:You know, when Travis was just saying about his wife, my wife lives same thing Like she's very godly, always was very godly. And one of the things I would tell, like I'm thinking of young, is that what this for young pastors? Right, I'm just thinking, you know, listen to your wife. Like my wife when we started the church 30 years ago, I mean, it's still so strange to me. We started this thing in our house and but she's always been there with me through the whole thing and it's such insight like she always had insight into. You know, be careful of that person. Or like so I would tell like in my case, my wife is so godly, so close to the Lord, definitely a better teacher than I am. Why are you nodding your head? Yes, no, she is. She's a great teacher, but she was always good like as a sounding board just to share different things and then communicate to me about you know what's going on, cause they have a perspective you know very good.
Joey:Otherwise, you know, even as an assistant pastor, and different roles and everything I know. One of the things, one of the mistakes I made early on that others can learn from, is having expectations on your wife. You got to do this. You got to do this you got to be like this.
Joey:You got to be like this person. You have to do all these things cause I'm a pastor or an assistant pastor or an elder or a deacon, and so you have to look like this, and that is no bueno. And realizing that God's gifted her uniquely for something you know and for it to take care of the, I mean, oh man, she's amazing. But even in that, even you know what happened with us. To keep it very short, is I thought oh well, I want her to look like this and be like this and I was missing out on the giftings and the callings that were there the whole time, you know.
Joey:So, that's just something else that comes to mind.
Zak:And so interesting because I believe pastor is one of the only jobs right now where this happens that just because a man is a pastor, automatically it's assumed that the wife is a pastor which you know is unbiblical but that she has all the same gifts and talents. Like my mechanic, I would not assume that his wife is going to be able to open up the hood in my car and also work on it and do all these things and just this false expectation. That's the same thing with pastors. Kids I'm sure you guys have seen it's like oh, you're a pastor's kid, you must be holy and be able to teach a five point sermon and live the perfect life. And my kid's five years old what's wrong with you?
Zak:And it's just being able to not have any expectations. We're just a bunch of beggars just showing other beggars where the bread is at. That's all that we're doing. Bobby, I love your heart and approach. There's many young pastors and just young adults in general, I think, just people in general that we live chasing after the mountain top. I'll be happy once I go on this vacation. I'll be happy once I get this promotion. I'll be happy once I teach at this conference or once my church is this size and then oftentimes we find out it's just as empty as it is before. And I think you're one of the pastors that I hear say the most that you don't care about the big conferences and things like that. I've seen you teach at them. But how do you keep that heart and that mindset that you do enjoy the days of small things and the small beginnings and the small things? I've seen more than those mountain top experiences.
Bobby:Well, I think I even said it to you and your wife yesterday, like just teaching in your church last night and just looking at that, you had a good crowd there last night and I was like get used to this. I said, zach, take this all in tonight, because this is going to change. Like I really I'm not a prophet or anything, but I could just see because of the commitment that you and your wife, the church, your focus on the Apostles teaching, the worship, everything this church is going to blow up. And so that's like what the Lord really showed me very early in the ministry was to enjoy the people. You know, I used to go through the frustration oh so and so wasn't here and where are these people? And these people didn't come back. And then the Lord started to impress upon me listen, you love who's there, you love them people. You speak to those people, you be sensitive to their needs. And so I just always, by the grace of God again that I had this. You know, are you? You know what is that spiritual leadership book? I think it's the second chapter. It says are you thinking great things for yourself, don't? You know you, you know I, and by the grace of God. I could not, I can't believe.
Bobby:Calvary Chapel took me in, accepted me. I, you know, they let me be a pastor and like to do this. I get to do this. And I think I told you guys this yesterday that you know this, this mindset, that you know, you should never, if you get to a mindset where, wow, I'm great, or this is you're, god does not need you. And I think the perspective to keep is I get to do this. He's called me, you know. And so I just, you know, you just want to please him.
Bobby:And so I remember the first time Joe Foch asked me, you know, I remember, you know panic, and I remember, you know, do you know what you're talking like? You're asking me to do it? And and then the big scare was I listened to all his messages. It was like, joe, I mean, I'm just going to just share what you shared, and you know, I just share it a little differently, maybe give it a little New York slant, and and so you know. So I would just say, just just love what Christ is doing with you, with your, with your church, and he, he increases it, he adds to it. But even to this day, I have the perspective and I know it's the truth.
Bobby:God loves the city that I'm in right now. He loves them so much and I think it's in Revelation, chapter three, verse eight, where it talks about the church of Philadelphia. He says, he says, you know, I've opened a door for you because you have a little strength and I love that. And then he says because you have kept my word and you've kept my name, and I think in our area after the whole COVID thing, we, we, we kept his word, we honored his word, we kept his name, the name of Christ, and we always understood, you know, calvary chapels verses it's not by my nor by power, but by my spirits as the Lord, and it's always been our strength in ourselves. It's not, it's in Christ.
Bobby:And so I see that that's why God had blessed, has blessed the church, he has blessed the area. My brother Michael could even tell you like he's. He's given us such a like with the political, like they want us to do. You know their swearing ends the county executive just recently. I mean, it's just the influence that God has blessed us with. But we never sought for this stuff. I think if you're going back to it's actually a quote from the Bible if you're thinking great things for yourself, don't, because the Lord will do it. Let the Lord do it, and so, and be happy where you're at, and I think that's it.
Mike:I think one of the huge things that I found with the church because the success of the church is really in spite of us it was because we held to the word and Jesus says if I be lifted up, I'll draw all men unto me and I think of it. All of us, I believe, are dads and if I was going to pass away in a couple of weeks and I knew it I would gather every godly man and woman I knew when I'd say hey, you pray for my kids, because that's all it is right. We can't take anything with us but our children, but other souls, and I and my emphasis would be you just pray for them, you just keep pointing them to the ways of Jesus. And I believe the success of our church is because, as we stick to the word and we lift Jesus higher, god says I'm going to bring the people, because they're going to be my mouthpiece, to point to my son, because he is the only way, and I think that's our success.
Zak:How about you Travis Any safeguards or anything you've put in place? See a lot of other young guys our age that they're always just chasing the bigger crowd or a bigger church or a bigger platform, bigger ministry. So many pastors are letting go of churches to start a social media church or a YouTube channel instead. Any mindset or safeguarding anything, man?
Travis:oh yeah, zach. I mean, you know there. I know deep down in my heart there's ambition. Deep down in my heart there are things that are not godly. I got to keep that in check. And the Lord says he who desires to be great let him strive to be the servant of all. And I know there's things in my heart, lord. I want to pray things for you. Me too, though, lord, you know, I think the proper assessment of self which comes through the mirror of God's word, I'm so grateful for. Paul, 1 Corinthians, chapter 4, says that. You know, it's a really small thing if you judge me. In fact, I don't even judge myself, paul says, because I know my judge-o-meter is all messed up and it is.
Travis:And so I think, you know, keeping close accounts with the Lord, having a proper assessment of myself through God's word to know. You know you were saying it yesterday, bobby we should be very serious about what God has called us to do. We shouldn't take ourselves too seriously. I'm quoting that for the rest of the year. That's a good quote.
Zak:Bobby.
Travis:Hargreaves, you know also a pastor. You know I'm so blessed. I've served four years now in the role of senior pastor. I've served seven years still in the role of assistant pastor. I still get to serve as Ken's assistant, so I have a voice speaking into my life and you know I've had texts from Ken. But hey, travis, you know, prepare your heart now for what God has you. Know ahead. You know which is a nice way of saying stay humble, don't mess this up. And I'm grateful for men like that. You know that. You know being under authority and I think the moment we as pastors step out from under authority of God's people whether it's Joe Foge or whether it's you know the movement, the leaders of this movement or our own. You know something more locally. So I think there's great safety in just being under the authority of a man who has a longevity, a track record and imitating him.
Zak:Yeah, for me one of my life verses is Luke 747 she, because she was forgiven much, she loves much and one of the things that always keeps me in check is to take a look back, right when I first came.
Zak:So, the Lord, look back, remember where you are at, lest you think this is all because of you or how great you are or how amazing you are, anything like that. Take a look back that day you got saved, the day you're weeping, the day you are on your knees and still think of your, your hot stuff or big stuff, or is it all in spite of you? Just like Bobby and Mike were mentioning, and I love that, sadly, there's so many men that they can't laugh at themselves or they get offended. Anybody cracks any joke at them and they get so offended and that's why it's so important to not take ourselves that seriously. I love church history, how they talk about Peter when he would walk around, other disciples or other people would do Rooster calls when Peter was walking around, talk about staying humble and constantly be reminded hey, you deny the Lord three times and it's in scripture for everybody to see. Yeah, and people joking whether messing with him about it and gotta stay humble so important.
Travis:Yeah, I had a buddy. He's gone home to be the Lord now. But Sean McGeagan used to always say a dead man can't be offended, and and a reminder that when we're offended or when we're, you know, our pride is stung because it's still some of Travis left alive and it's got to die. So always things to be mindful of. I.
Bobby:Know for, like, I don't know if you're gonna go this way, but I just I'm just thinking of the, the pastor out there You're putting together the message. I think it's important for for young people to know it's hard. The ministry is hard, you know I I always say it and they think I'm joking, I'm totally serious. I worked in a. It was a tough. It was a tough prison, over 2,000 inmates, you know you're, you're in 38 and that was easy. That was easy compared to the church.
Bobby:Church is a whole nother thing and it's just. It's a very, you know, it's a spiritual battle. You really need to be prayed up, you really need to have the full armor of God and you need to really keep close to the Lord, like if you know again to serve his people. You have to be in the the power and strength of the Lord Jesus Christ. And so I just want to, I just See in this this young pastor that's like why is it seems so difficult?
Bobby:It seems difficult because it is difficult, but if you really give it to him, like everything, your your time, you have to manage your time. Like I'm just thinking back when I had a young family, I was doing a full-time job plus. So I, I, I had to really be disciplined in in my time and in in my study, but also with my family, you know. And so it's. It's this. It is tough, but as you really Trust the Lord he'll, he'll enable you to do it, because you're his man, you're his guy, he's gonna use you. And so I just want to encourage those young people out there that that are doing it and they're finding it rough. It is very rough.
Zak:You mentioned time management and that's something I've heard, whether it's you're talking to a 12 year old, a 22 year old, a 42 year old, a 62 year old Time management how do we manage our time? How can we be a good Pastor or servant at a church? How can we be a good husband, a good father? How can we be disciplined with our bodies so that we're not like fat slobs walking around? How do we have our own private devotional time? How are we a good friend, a good brother, any Mindset that the Lord has given you in managing your time, so that you can do well in all of these different facets of life?
Bobby:Well, the Lord has always been so gracious to me where I can honestly say, before the Lord, I've never given the church a Saturday night special where you know I had a cram the night before. You know, I was always disciplined. Now I've always you know, not in the beginning, but there was, there were seasons where I always had an assistant where they could do Wednesdays because I could just focus on Sunday. So it was great. So I was always, you know, I would Discipline my time.
Bobby:I, I, I also make sure I'd go to the gym because I need that. I, for me, personally, I need at least an hour in the gym where I can just unload there and just let everything out and then, you know, go back to that to studying. But you know how do you do? Well, you got to make, you got to figure it out. I don't know everybody's different. Like now I'm doing Wednesdays and Sundays, and so I, I have to.
Bobby:I I spend at least 20 hours, 20 hours like prep for each message when I'll just pour in, like reading. Like the normal person can read a chapter In what 20 minutes it takes me a good hour, like I really might, you know. So I, I've learned to study. I kind of I even like preparation. Now I like it, my wife knows it, my family knows it, so the staff knows it. So I'm not a counselor. I don't do a lot of the counseling anymore. I have other people that can do the counseling. So you got to work with what works for you. But you have to be disciplined. You know I I always impress that upon like a new, a new be in our church or somebody that's on staff. You have to be disciplined.
Joey:Now I hope I'm not remembering incorrectly, but you prep for 20 hours each teaching. I mean you might must have had like a college reading level at age five or Degrees?
Bobby:no, no, I was. I was the dumbbell. I couldn't read.
Joey:That's my I didn't I yeah, that's my story.
Bobby:I could, I could, I couldn't read. I was. Actually I got as far as college, if you can believe it or not. I was playing football college and I could not read. And I Remember you know it's interesting the school I was going to, all our games were in giant stadium. So I got a chance to meet all the giants and stuff because they'd come on the field and I realized, okay, I'm not gonna be a professional football player after you know, seeing these guys, they look like stallions.
Bobby:And so you know at the time that I got saved and I came back home, I Basically got a job as a security guard in a park of drone, and so I was in this shack and I found out I was able to get Chuck's tapes and tapes, cassettes I don't know if you guys remember those. You put it in the the cassette player and I would. I would listen to Pastor Chuck and just go through the Bible with him, and so I did that for three years and that basically taught me how to read, like I really learned to read. So I I learned to read the Bible and I had, because I learned by listening, so a lot of the tapes I would read. But then you know, I started getting into commentaries and it was interesting when my friend and Travis you said it. Great, say it again. In order to lead, you have to read, or had you say that.
Bobby:Pastor Ken always told me yeah, leaders are readers and readers are leaders, and that was so true, if another pastor said that to me, and so here I was I. I started basically with the comic book tracks of the Bible.
Bobby:Really and from from there and then you know the Warren Wearsby, and then you know, you, you start, you know growing, and you, you, you, phillips and the different, you meet these guys at the conferences and you say, hey, so so what commentaries you read, and they tell you the common commentary, and and so I, I just took a love and just Reading those things and so my, my preparation hasn't changed. I still use, I use, I'll take two or three newer commentaries and stuff and they're basically Repeating what the other people you know. So, but but I've learned to love it over the years, the study, the whole process of it and Zach you.
Joey:You recently Developed more of a reading habit as well.
Zak:Yeah, I'd never like to read. Unfortunately, I don't think I read a single book in middle school or high school, just back then. I'll spark notes today, be chat to BT or something like that. But over time, just again that discipline. If the Lord convicted me once, after teaching a thing was at a conference and he said, zach, if I'm doing this through you, now what would happen if you would try harder, if you would discipline yourself more? What? What would I be able to do then? So I was very convicting and then it's just all right. You got to put all the excuses to the side and say, if leaders or readers and readers or leaders, I like it, it's time to start reading. So for me it's as simple. I read 10 pages a day, no matter what. I try to knock it out in the morning with my devotionals. If not, sometimes you could find me in my kitchen standing up on the counter.
Zak:So I don't fall stunned that just so I could get my 10 books in the bathroom.
Bobby:Yeah get it in.
Zak:Travis, how about you anything specific for time management? I know you got two kids, five year old twins. You got a newer church so you don't have someone they could say, hey, you take over the counseling.
Travis:So you're, you're, you're at the beginning.
Zak:I think I'm sort of in the middle because of my dad and being able to take over, but you planning a church. How do you manage your time?
Travis:time management is one of the biggest Obstacles on a week-to-week basis with me. So I am by no means the guy who has figured it out. You know, I look at. You know all these little topics We've already talked about, whether it's marriage or physical stewardship, working out or reading.
Travis:Um, I have tried to implement things that I have to keep myself accountable. So if I say hey to my assistant pastor, we're going to keep office hours. That helps me to keep office hours. I'm going to be in the office these days, these hours, because I know my assistant's going to be there, likewise my wife and I. We actually work out together and so when I'm not feeling like I want to do it that day, she'll remind me no, let's do it, and vice versa. We do the same with our staff and our elders going through. We're always going through a book. Right now we're doing Arnold Dallymore's biography on Charles Persian, and again it's I implement it just because I know these guys are all going to be waiting for me to talk about the book. So I got a, so they're, they're. You know, maybe it's the cheat sheet, but I'm always keeping myself in this kind of ring of accountability and it really helps me.
Zak:I love that because so often people think I'm so smart, I I should be a leader, when what I've seen more and more and more is I am so dumb. That is why God has made me a leader, exactly. I never forget the first time I did a book group with our young adult guys. I had never been so faithful in reading because I knew when I got there there's going to be 20 young adults staring at me saying, all right, what are we going to talk about today on this chapter that we were supposed to read? So just that, accountability. It is such a game changer and being able to manage our time and to be the man that that god has Called us to be a bobby for a young pastor, someone that's just starting to teach any specific Tips or a mindset that you would give them when they teach. How should they teach? Is it about being the smartest person? Or by having the funniest jokes? Any specific things I said. This is what differentiates the bad teacher or bad Preacher from a mediocre one from a great one.
Bobby:I think it was Greg Glory who said it. He says you really need to know your audience, and and so I've. I've come to know my audience on Wednesday. I've come to know my audience, the people that are tuning in on Sunday, and so Sunday you have Of of like from, from people that are unbelievers. They're seeking there, you know, and then you got the, the person that's been saved for 30 years. So it's I'm.
Bobby:I find even during my study time, as I'm going through the like, I'll think of the various people I think of wow, man, they, you know what that person needs to hear that. And then you know it's, it's interesting, my, my, I, for Sunday, I'll start, I start Wednesday. After I finish Wednesday night, that night I, I, I get my, my messages, download the different messages for for that. So Thursday, thursday, I am just just listening to, to the text. I listen to like three guys that they're the might go to guys. I want to listen to them for the test. There's the Commentaries that I'll read my, my secretary has them all set for me. So I'm listening, I'm reading and and then, like, friday is when I, I write it out. I begin to write out my message.
Bobby:I'm Friday. And so I'm just, I'm thinking of various different people and wow, they really need to hear this. This is going to be good for them. But I, I think, uh, you know, you know, again, it's, it's, it's not. Wow, I'm going to sound good if I say this and if and I'm not a joke guy like I saw your father, he did okay, he did good. I'm not a joke guy, I, I'll blow it, I blow the joke. And so I realize my, because I, I guess I do Do a lot of preparing.
Bobby:By the time I prepare it for Friday, it's it's crunch, it's, it's like there's things I have to take out. So you're, you're, you're just narrowing it down. And then Sunday, I am so in need of the Lord. So, like God, please, you have to show up and and it's interesting, even after the first service, like people will see me, you know, because you know I'll walk around a bit, but I normally stay in the office in between the service and they'll like you know, you okay, and I'm like, no, I have to do this again. And so it's, it's, it's, it never goes, it's never. I've never in 30 years ever been like I got this, I can.
Bobby:Honestly, I'm always in the moment I'm thinking, I'm praying, I'm asking God to help me to deliver it, because I put this focus on I get one chance, I get one opportunity with these people, and I don't know if it's a wrong pressure, but it works for me to have that kind of pressure. I don't wanna fail, I don't wanna, I wanna be able to say after each message I did the best I could, you know, I studied the best I could, I did the best I could. I relied upon the Lord, because I know how powerful the gospel is. So I make sure I'm saying the gospel, I put the gospel in there. But I think it's important to keep that dependency of like Lord. You know he's, I believe he's called me to be an evangelist. I believe he's called me to be a pastor. So it's like God, help me, help me, you know, to enlarge those giftings, those talents you give me and do the supernatural. And so it's, that's how I always focus it.
Mike:One of the things that I get from you because I just look Bobby's arms up is he's punctual, he starts on time and he finishes on time and, if you like, with the worship team, like you're up there, this is the time and he's always respectful of people's time, because I think sometimes in churches you don't know when they're starting, when they're ending, and people really want that. And then the other thing you always say is because, remember, you try to be Greg Laurie and everybody else for it. You gotta be you, you gotta be like you know you could take from all these different people but at the end of the day, you gotta be you.
Mike:And I think that's what he does. Well, you know, but he had to learn it.
Zak:How about you Travis anything you've seen that differentiates the bad preacher from the mediocre on from the great?
Travis:one. Yeah, I mean, zach, you've said it our generation, that's the younger generation. You know, we're mid-30s and I would imagine, more so down here in South Florida. There's so many personalities vining for attention, vining for power, if they can be crass, or if they can be slick, or if they can have the light show, if they can, whatever, and it was just this past East Coast Pastries Conference there at Covered Temple of Philadelphia. Chris Swanson I've never seen him preach before, but I remember his opening line. He says hey, here's the benefit of staying tethered to the text is you're gonna share the inspired, infallible word of God.
Travis:Our commentary is not inspired or infallible at least not mine so commentary is good.
Travis:there's benefit of that of course you know we are to serve the meal and cut it up and add, and you know. But if I can keep less of my commentary out of just the exegetical kind of hermeneutics of the text, good for you, and so I'm very mindful of that. You know, I think the temptation, like I get to watch my wife and likewise with you, Zach, we have lives who are the worship leaders and I'm fascinated because there's some similarities, I know as a worship leader sometimes there's a temptation to add a little flavor, a little twist, or if I can find that new song, there's that temptation that they gotta kinda keep check and check. I think, as a pastor, if I can add this new nuance, this new treasure, this new nugget, if I can, and try not to be led so much by that, I want to just teach the text and the benefit of Calvary Chapel is we don't have time to dive into is.
Travis:You know some people they make you know some preachers. They just picked their little pet topics and I'll spend a whole year on the five points of some ism. You know what I'm saying and you know our job and there's the model Chuck told us is just bring people through the text. Of course there's depth to it, but bring people through the text and you know that's just the again. The example we're here we are 50 plus years into the Calvary Movement means that young guys, we just watch guys who've done that and God's blessed it versus other guys who've tried to add something new, and you know they're off of the wilderness somewhere.
Bobby:I'm glad I'm able to say this, because this is going to be my last thing. I say, you know, just being with you two guys, you guys are just. I am just so grateful. I know Calvary Chapel we're going to be fine. I mean, I meet a lot of the younger guys and I said this to Zach and Travis yesterday and I really mean this.
Bobby:You know, when Jesus began his ministry there with the wedding feast and it says that he saved the best wine for the last, I really believe, just listening to you guys because I listen to both of you, I listen to your teaching and really, where they're at, we're just doing this four years, seven years. I'm like I was a mess, like you know what the people were. Someone gave me one of my early tapes. I was like, please destroy that thing, you know. And so I really believe the Lord has saved the best for last.
Bobby:I see these younger people that are coming up that the Lord's going to use mightily, and so it's good. It's like I'm looking forward because I have grandkids and that's my thing is, I want to see them grow in the faith. And I listen to you guys and you guys got it. You're very sure, and not sure of yourself, but sure of God. And you've seen it. You're respectful for the elder people that have done this and we're so grateful. You know, listening to those messages, stay to the old paths. You guys are there, but I think in these last days, god is going to use you supernaturally, because, powerfully, because there's a whole mess of people that are lost and you guys you're using like this, like I would never even think of doing something like this, but I wish I heard other pastors talking like this and say, okay, all right, we're not that far off, we're okay, you know. And so I think it's going to be incredible what God's going to do with you guys.
Joey:Thanks Bobby, thanks Bobby I was going to mention, just kind of like Mike, from an assistant perspective you used to mention it more, but I imagine you still do this, which is not Pastor Zach, which is a lot of guys will try to sound very smart and make it sound smarter, and you try to make it not sound dumber but sound simpler. You know, you used to mention your go-to resource, incredible resource.
Zak:Yeah, still do it. Kid's dictionary, baby, and what did.
Bobby:Warren Warrensby say, I heard him say one time he says listen, guys, you're feeding sheep, you're not feeding giraffe.
Travis:Keep it down here.
Bobby:That's good, Like keep it down here. You know, Know your audience. That's what it comes down to.
Zak:Yeah, my wife had given me a book from Spurgeoning. It's talking about teaching children and he said some people would want bigger and more highly educated words and sermons. But he realized if he could make the sermon so that a child could understand it, that meant a slave that was illiterate could understand it, meant that a business owner could understand it, meant that the smartest man on earth could understand it. That's good. And again, how the Lord he wants to use it grabbed a bunch of fishermen. He grabbed a bunch of fishermen and that's who he was primarily teaching to and for. Sermons is sticking to the word, like both of these gentlemen said, and I'll never forget, early on when I was teaching, I had this lady come up to me. She said don't you think you use too much Bible verses in your teachings? What a compliment and it almost became a chip on my shoulder. I said oh, you think that's a lot of verses. I'm gonna use even more.
Travis:Bible verses. Good for you.
Zak:Because the word of God is what's gonna feed people.
Mike:Doesn't return, void it never returns void.
Zak:It's the mirror that reveals to us where we're at. It's sharper than any two-edged sword. It's gonna show us, not only cut us to the heart, but show us why we're doing what we're doing. It cleanses us. It's the only thing that can continue to wash us and sanctify us and make us more and more like Christ. It's all about the word and Travis, like I said, so many young guys and even, sadly, older guys, it's all about the gimmicks. Or let me dress like this guy or act like this guy and just teach the word. Simply be yourself, just like you guys said how the Lord asked Moses what's in your hand? He used Moses' shepherd staff. He uses David's sling and his harp. And each of us hey, who are you? God wants to use your personality, your giftings, your background, but it's all to push up Jesus, christ and the word of Christ. It's so important, so special.
Zak:Anything you see in the horizon for churches to look out for or be weary of. Bobby, you've been in it. They say old things come back. Old flare pants are back in style. Bell bottom jeans I know you got yours again. So anything that's dangerous for churches that you see it starting to come back into the forefront and be weary of this young pastor, be weary of this. Maybe a mom or dad of a family looking for what church to go to. Any warnings coming up in this next season for churches?
Bobby:You know it's funny you're saying I've been just running the race, I'm just focused I find myself tending more towards wanting, like the other ministries in our area, like just trying to draw them together. Like you know, I just see in our area there's such a need. There's not many churches. After COVID it knocked out a lot of churches, in fact the other churches in our area. I was just talking to a pastor who has a church, a big church, and he was just telling us a lot of the smaller churches just they just fell apart afterwards and so you have the bigger churches getting more and more people and I tend it bothers me that people are not going to church.
Bobby:You know, and I think in Hebrews that's what it's talking about. When you see, you know, especially as this time approaching, that you know that, you know people are less seeing it as important to go to. So, like we're we've always been online I think it's important. But if I had, if I'm concerned about anything is like to get the church back in. Like what can I do better to get them back in there? And you know, for our facility and everything else, and so that's the only thing I see. I don't know. What do you guys think?
Travis:Well, I'll say, you know the secular world's obsession right now with UFOs and the extraterrestrial, as maddening as it is. I'm watching the save world get obsessed with. I'm watching the church house talking about all these. If we really understood the Nephilim, we really got to go back to. You know Genesis, chapter six, and we, you know, I'm watching this thing happen and I just think anything that the devil can do to get our focus off the Great Commission and that includes politics.
Travis:I'm outspoken, I know you men are too. I'm outspoken about tyranny. I'm all about the right that we have as US citizens. I think we should exercise them. At the same time, it does not and cannot get in the way of the Great Commission. There's no statute of limitations, no expiration date. He has called us to go into the world and part of making disciples is it, says there. Matthew, chapter 28 is teaching them all that I've commanded, which is expositional teaching, bringing people to the Bible. Keep the main thing, the main thing Don't worry about the UFOs, Don't worry about the. You know all the different conspiracy theories and all that, Not that there's not a place for that and I get it, but the Bible says there's going to be that deception.
Travis:Yeah.
Bobby:And the, and it also talks about Thessalonians. There's going to be a great falling away. So that's my concern for those that are like falling away, those that are being deceived, and I think that's where, when you're rightly dividing the word and you're teaching, you know Matthew 24, where Jesus to be, where are these things? This is what's going to happen. So I think I, I, I feel, because I see some of those that are going, the political and you know, and I think it's going to get worse, you know, as this election goes on. But I think most people that I communicate with and I feel, listen, I'm looking for Jesus Christ, I'm looking, I want to elect Jesus Christ. I, you know, that's my thing, it's all Jesus.
Joey:Just to confirm something that pastor Bobby said, and I'm thinking of specific people. So so I'm so thankful that anyone who who fits this description finally came around, but it's so alarming and it's just like a very practical example of a pastor Bobby said, as you asked them, when somebody will come to church for the first time, oh welcome, so good to have you. You know you're new. You're kind of talking like they're new. Oh, I've been attending online for six months. Oh, no, I've been attending online for a year. It's like what? That's not a thing. That's not a thing, bro. Like somebody, they invented that in 2020. That's not a thing. So just an example of a pastor Bobby was saying that's like normal. Now, those phrases, that language, so difficult, wow.
Zak:Yeah, I think it's so true with since 2016,. There have been ministries that have exploded, that online you have hundreds of thousands of followers, and it's because they have politics on a Christian slant. They have UFOs on a Christian slant, they have Israel updates, but on a Christian slant, and we have to be so careful of that, have to keep them, maintain the main thing. It's all about knowing Jesus Christ and His word. Many will say to me Lord, lord, did we not do XYZ in your name? But depart from me. I never knew you, so just be be careful of that church, be careful of that listener.
Zak:Perhaps what you enjoy most about Jesus is getting your updates on UFOs, or whether destruction or politics, trump, all these different things, israel, biden. And then you have the other areas right. You have churches with gay flags at their doors or bishops wearing gay flags on their shoulders or collars all of this noise. You got to clear all that noise and abide in Jesus Christ. If you abide in Him, you will bear much fruit, but if you don't abide in Him, hey, you're going to fall apart. So, hey, guys, any last final words, any last final encouragement that you guys would have for the listeners, for the young pastor, dad listening.
Travis:Hey, listen, any listeners listening in this area come to church here at Covered Chapel of Miami. I mean that get involved at a church, where the Bible is going to be the primary ministry here the teaching of God's word, the fellowship of God's people, the prayer of God's saints, the taking communion together. And, Bobby, you said it so well in the days we're living in right now, there should be no other priority in a person's life than their spiritual life, and that includes the assembling together of the body of believers.
Zak:I think my last encouragement, as Bobby mentioned, at scripture last night and this morning, moses was acquainted with the Lord. He knew God, he knew the heart of God. So for us, don't just be acquainted with Christianity or Christianese or theology, don't just get caught up in how much Calvinism you know, or theology you know, or hermeneutics you know. Fall in love with Jesus Christ. Grow in love with Jesus Christ and get to know his heart and the heart of the Father. But thank you for listening, have a great day.
Joey:One last thing. What makes this time together very special is all three of these senior pastors. They have their radio program on God's Way Radio. You want to go to godswayradiocom for the updated schedule. But Pastor Zach, sword and spirit, pastor Bobby Hargaves, the faithful word, and Pastor Travis Carey with the Emmaus Exposition. Right now, as of this recording, that's on weekends, but we know that God could do it to even get them on the weekdays. So thank you to all these men for their ministry in their church and beyond, and thank you again, pastor Zach.
Tiffany:We hope you enjoyed Friends and Family. You meet conversations recorded and produced in our studios where you get a chance to hear what God is doing in people's lives. Jesus tells us in John 15, verse 15, I have called you friends for all things that I heard from my Father I have made known to you. So that's why we love to share these exclusive interviews with you. Our hope is that through their stories God will be made known to you. But you can only find them here on God's Way Radio. Just check God'sWayRadiocom for our full program schedule.